Skip to main content

Thought for the Day: Bentching After Shalosh S'udos When Rosh Chodesh Occurs On Sunday

Apparently getting as little as 51% of the electorate is called "received a clear mandate from the people" vis a vis presidential elections.  While I usually consider such statements as so much inconsequential nonsense, if it provides support for something I want to do anyway; why not?  Based on the fact that a whopping 66.667% of responses to yesterday's post regarding al ha'nisim when Purim falls on Sunday (and the pothole situation this winter) asked about Rosh Chodesh falling on Sunday, I have a mandate from the people!  Moreover, the response rate itself was up by nearly 207%!  I humbly accept the confidence and trust that both of you have put in me.

If you finish your s'uda sh'lisis on Shabbos before sundown, then you have no issues with bentching; just add only "r'tzei", obviously.  Let's look at another almost as obvious case.  You washed after shkiya and davened ma'ariv during the s'uda after tzeis ha'kochavim, but before bentching (which you are allowed to do, even l'chatchila, in many situations).  In that case, obviously (more or less), you add only "ya'aleh v'yavo"; according to the clock on the wall it's not Shabbos anymore, it is Rosh Chodesh, and you declared both of those facts in your evening prayers.  Move on, nothing to see here, move on.

There are three factors that conspire to make the situation murky after the clarity we have till this point.  The first is that the m'chaber paskens (695:3, and elsewhere, but that's in hilchos Purim and that's where I am holding now and so that's the one I can readily find) that the insertions to bentching go according to the beginning of the s'uda.  Second, we know (from early Shabbos, for example) that even when the meal begins before Shabbos, but we continue the meal into Shabbos, then we insert "r'tzei" because at the time we are bentching it is, in fact, Shabbos.  (I know that's a run on sentence; deal.)  Third, in this case it's either Rosh Chodesh or Shabbos, but not both.

So now there are three ways to go:

  1. "bentching follows the beginning of the meal" means what it says; so say "r'tzei".
  2. "bentching follows the beginning of the meal" means if there is nothing in the situation at the end that contradicts the beginning, but otherwise bentching goes by the current situation; so say "ya'aleh v'yavo".
  3. Heck!  You ate a k'zayis of bread on Shabbos and you vaiter ate a k'zayis of bread on Rosh Chodesh, and the insertions are merely acknowledging that fact; so add both.
As it turns out, any way you go has its supporters.  It seems to me that the Mishna Brura leans toward saying both (and being scrupulous to eat a k'zayis of pas both before and after sh'kiya), and that's what I do.  Not a recommendation; just a deposition.

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Thought for the Day: Pizza, Uncrustables, and Stuff -- What Bracha?

Many years ago (in fact, more than two decades ago), I called R' Fuerst from my desk at work as I sat down to lunch.  I had a piece of (quite delicious) homemade pizza for lunch.  I nearly always eat at my desk as I am working (or writing TftD...), so my lunch at work cannot in any way be considered as sitting down to a formal meal; aka קביעת סעודה.  That being the case, I wasn't sure whether to wash, say ha'motzi, and bentch; or was the pizza downgraded to a m'zonos.  He told if it was a snack, then it's m'zonos; if a meal the ha'motzi.  Which what I have always done since then.  I recently found out how/why that works. The Shulchan Aruch, 168:17 discusses פשטיד''א, which is describes as a baked dough with meat or fish or cheese.  In other words: pizza.  Note: while the dough doesn't not need to be baked together with the meat/fish/cheese, it is  required that they dough was baked with the intention of making this concoction. ...

Thought for the Day: Yetzer HaRa -- Spiritual Force of Tuma vs Physical Ta'avos

In any project planning, there are two basic approaches: top down and bottom up.  Top down starts with describing what you want done at the highest level that seems reasonable.  You then break that down into a list of things that are smaller in scope (they only accomplish part of the job) and are therefore easier to actually accomplish.  That process can is then repeated with each sub-project.  Each iteration produces a new set of smaller projects.  For any of the projects, the level above provides the "why" for the project of interest, and the projects below provide the "how" for the current project.  Bottom up starts, as it's name suggests, from the lowest level -- here is stuff I know I can do, and proceeds by asking "what can I do by putting this stuff together?" For example, I have a project to slake my thirst.  Top down would start by a requirement to get a cool drink into a container from which I can drink.  That breaks down into: (1) fin...

Thought for the Day: Why Halacha Has "b'di'avad"

There was this Jew who knew every "b'di'avad" (aka, "Biddy Eved", the old spinster librarian) in the book.  When ever he was called on something, his reply was invariably, "biddy eved, it's fine".  When he finally left this world and was welcomed to Olam Haba, he was shown to a little, damp closet with a bare 40W bulb hanging from the ceiling.  He couldn't believe his eyes and said in astonishment, "This is Olam Haba!?!"  "Yes, Reb Biddy Eved,  for you this is Olam Haba." b'di'avad gets used like that; f you don't feel like doing something the best way, do it the next (or less) best way.  But Chazal tell us that "kol ha'omer HaShem vatran, m'vater al chayav" -- anyone who thinks HaShem gives partial credit is fooling himself to death (free translation.  Ok, really, really free translation; but its still true).  HaShem created us and this entire reality for one and only one purpose: for use...