Skip to main content

Thought for the Day: Bentching After Shalosh S'udos When Rosh Chodesh Occurs On Sunday

Apparently getting as little as 51% of the electorate is called "received a clear mandate from the people" vis a vis presidential elections.  While I usually consider such statements as so much inconsequential nonsense, if it provides support for something I want to do anyway; why not?  Based on the fact that a whopping 66.667% of responses to yesterday's post regarding al ha'nisim when Purim falls on Sunday (and the pothole situation this winter) asked about Rosh Chodesh falling on Sunday, I have a mandate from the people!  Moreover, the response rate itself was up by nearly 207%!  I humbly accept the confidence and trust that both of you have put in me.

If you finish your s'uda sh'lisis on Shabbos before sundown, then you have no issues with bentching; just add only "r'tzei", obviously.  Let's look at another almost as obvious case.  You washed after shkiya and davened ma'ariv during the s'uda after tzeis ha'kochavim, but before bentching (which you are allowed to do, even l'chatchila, in many situations).  In that case, obviously (more or less), you add only "ya'aleh v'yavo"; according to the clock on the wall it's not Shabbos anymore, it is Rosh Chodesh, and you declared both of those facts in your evening prayers.  Move on, nothing to see here, move on.

There are three factors that conspire to make the situation murky after the clarity we have till this point.  The first is that the m'chaber paskens (695:3, and elsewhere, but that's in hilchos Purim and that's where I am holding now and so that's the one I can readily find) that the insertions to bentching go according to the beginning of the s'uda.  Second, we know (from early Shabbos, for example) that even when the meal begins before Shabbos, but we continue the meal into Shabbos, then we insert "r'tzei" because at the time we are bentching it is, in fact, Shabbos.  (I know that's a run on sentence; deal.)  Third, in this case it's either Rosh Chodesh or Shabbos, but not both.

So now there are three ways to go:

  1. "bentching follows the beginning of the meal" means what it says; so say "r'tzei".
  2. "bentching follows the beginning of the meal" means if there is nothing in the situation at the end that contradicts the beginning, but otherwise bentching goes by the current situation; so say "ya'aleh v'yavo".
  3. Heck!  You ate a k'zayis of bread on Shabbos and you vaiter ate a k'zayis of bread on Rosh Chodesh, and the insertions are merely acknowledging that fact; so add both.
As it turns out, any way you go has its supporters.  It seems to me that the Mishna Brura leans toward saying both (and being scrupulous to eat a k'zayis of pas both before and after sh'kiya), and that's what I do.  Not a recommendation; just a deposition.
Labels:

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Thought for the Day: Pizza, Uncrustables, and Stuff -- What Bracha?

Many years ago (in fact, more than two decades ago), I called R' Fuerst from my desk at work as I sat down to lunch.  I had a piece of (quite delicious) homemade pizza for lunch.  I nearly always eat at my desk as I am working (or writing TftD...), so my lunch at work cannot in any way be considered as sitting down to a formal meal; aka קביעת סעודה.  That being the case, I wasn't sure whether to wash, say ha'motzi, and bentch; or was the pizza downgraded to a m'zonos.  He told if it was a snack, then it's m'zonos; if a meal the ha'motzi.  Which what I have always done since then.  I recently found out how/why that works. The Shulchan Aruch, 168:17 discusses פשטיד''א, which is describes as a baked dough with meat or fish or cheese.  In other words: pizza.  Note: while the dough doesn't not need to be baked together with the meat/fish/cheese, it is  required that they dough was baked with the intention of making this concoction. ...
Post a Comment
Read more

Thought for the Day: What Category of Muktzeh are Our Candles?

As discussed in a recent TftD , a p'sak halacha quite surprising to many, that one may -- even לכתחילה -- decorate a birthday cake with (unlit, obviously) birthday candles on Shabbos. That p'sak is predicated on another p'sak halacha; namely, that our candles are muktzeh because they are a כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור and not  מוקצה מחמת גופו/intrinsically set aside from any use on Shabbos. They point there was that using the candle as a decoration qualifies as a need that allows one to utilize a כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור. Today we will discuss the issue of concluding that our candles are , in fact, a כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור and not מוקצה מחמת גופו. Along the way we'll also (again) how important it is to have personal relationship with your rav/posek, the importance of precision in vocabulary, and how to interpret the Mishna Brura.  Buckle up. After reviewing siman 308 and the Mishna Brura there, I concluded that it should be permissible to use birthday candles to decorate a cake on Sha...
Post a Comment
Read more

Thought for the Day: אוושא מילתא Debases Yours Shabbos

My granddaughter came home with a list the girls and phone numbers in her first grade class.  It was cute because they had made it an arts and crafts project by pasting the list to piece of construction paper cut out to look like an old desk phone and a receiver attached by a pipe cleaner.  I realized, though, that the cuteness was entirely lost on her.  She, of course, has never seen a desk phone with a receiver.  When they pretend to talk on the phone, it is on any relatively flat, rectangular object they find.  (In fact, her 18 month old brother turns every  relatively flat, rectangular object into a phone and walks around babbling into it.  Not much different than the rest of us, except his train of thought is not interrupted by someone else babbling into his ear.) I was reminded of that when my chavrusa (who has children my grandchildrens age) and I were learning about אוושא מילתא.  It came up because of a quote from the Shulchan Aru...
Post a Comment
Read more