This is an incident recorded in the gemara (Sanhedrin 39) that either a rabbi of the Reform Jewish Religion faith or a Roman governor (often hard to tell those two categories apart) declared to Rabban Gamliel: "Your G-d is a thief! He stole Adam's rib!" His daughter (either the governor's or the rabbi's) piped up and said she could handle this one. She called for a policeman and told him she wanted to report a crime: "Someone broke into my house last night, stole an old flower pot, and left a gold vase in its place!" The policeman started laughing and asked how he could get the thief to visit his house. She turned to the accuser and said, "HaShem took a rib, but left him a wife; how can you complain?"
That is a good answer for a Roman governor or a rabbi of the Reform Jewish Religion. For a thinking person, though, it begs the question: Are you allowed to do that? Are you allowed to steal something with the intent to repay with something more valuable (or at least as valuable)? As it happens, King Dovid had a similar question. King Dovid, during a particular campaign against the P'lishtim, needed to feed his animals. There was a field of barley that was owned by a Jew. Kind Dovid sent messengers to the Sanhedrin to inquire if he was permitted to take (ie, steal) this Jew's grain with the provision that he would repay the loss with lentils (more valuable than barley) that he would acquire once he had successful concluded his campaign to wrest land of Eretz Yisrael from the Plishtim.
King Dovid was told that ordinarily that would be forbidden, but as king he had rights of eminent domain and it was therefore permissible for him to take (legally steal) the grain. (King Dovid chose not to exercise that right, but that it not our topic for now.) It would seem from here that one is not allowed to take something from another Jew without permission -- even though one has full intention to replace/pay for the item.
However, things are not quite so simple. First, King Dovid did not yet have the lentils in his possession. Also, who says the farmer wanted lentils? Maybe he really wanted to barley. Maybe he wanted his barley that he had worked so hard to grow. There is a fair amount of discussion on this topic in the later poskim. When the dust settles, if the item you want to take is for sale (or destined to be sold in market) and you have the resources to pay, then it is almost certainly allowed by all authorities. If you don't have the money right now, it is not necessarily bound to be put on the market, then there is what to talk about.
I want note a very important take away from this discussion, though. King Dovid was waging a war -- a required/mitzvah war! Obviously Jewish lives were at stake. Why did the question even start? Aren't we allowed -- nay, required -- to to anything to save lives? Well, except, of course, the big three of forbidden spiritual relations, forbidden physical relations, and murder. Stealing is not on that list, so what gives?
Answers R' Akiva Eiger, stealing is on that list: the prohibition of murder includes stealing money. When you take someone's money, you limit their choices -- which means you are taking some life from them, as discussed before. Think about that before you take someone's pen without asking...
That is a good answer for a Roman governor or a rabbi of the Reform Jewish Religion. For a thinking person, though, it begs the question: Are you allowed to do that? Are you allowed to steal something with the intent to repay with something more valuable (or at least as valuable)? As it happens, King Dovid had a similar question. King Dovid, during a particular campaign against the P'lishtim, needed to feed his animals. There was a field of barley that was owned by a Jew. Kind Dovid sent messengers to the Sanhedrin to inquire if he was permitted to take (ie, steal) this Jew's grain with the provision that he would repay the loss with lentils (more valuable than barley) that he would acquire once he had successful concluded his campaign to wrest land of Eretz Yisrael from the Plishtim.
King Dovid was told that ordinarily that would be forbidden, but as king he had rights of eminent domain and it was therefore permissible for him to take (legally steal) the grain. (King Dovid chose not to exercise that right, but that it not our topic for now.) It would seem from here that one is not allowed to take something from another Jew without permission -- even though one has full intention to replace/pay for the item.
However, things are not quite so simple. First, King Dovid did not yet have the lentils in his possession. Also, who says the farmer wanted lentils? Maybe he really wanted to barley. Maybe he wanted his barley that he had worked so hard to grow. There is a fair amount of discussion on this topic in the later poskim. When the dust settles, if the item you want to take is for sale (or destined to be sold in market) and you have the resources to pay, then it is almost certainly allowed by all authorities. If you don't have the money right now, it is not necessarily bound to be put on the market, then there is what to talk about.
I want note a very important take away from this discussion, though. King Dovid was waging a war -- a required/mitzvah war! Obviously Jewish lives were at stake. Why did the question even start? Aren't we allowed -- nay, required -- to to anything to save lives? Well, except, of course, the big three of forbidden spiritual relations, forbidden physical relations, and murder. Stealing is not on that list, so what gives?
Answers R' Akiva Eiger, stealing is on that list: the prohibition of murder includes stealing money. When you take someone's money, you limit their choices -- which means you are taking some life from them, as discussed before. Think about that before you take someone's pen without asking...
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